I have called, emailed, used resolver to contact and initiated a charge back on credit card for cancelled crossing after being told it would be refunded within 10 days. https://www.brittany-ferries.co.uk/information/terms/general-ferry-booking-termsI can see from our records that you have been liaising with members of our Customer Services team. Tell us which credit card (or ACH transfer) the payment was on, and enter the name of your bank and the merchant. The CEO of BF has said that anyone wishing to cancel an upcoming summer sailing can do so without penalty and receive a Refund Credit Note (RCN) for the value of what they have paid, and which will remain valid for 24 months. After an initial 'not helpful reply' I was assured the bag had been found by the Cleaners and would be awaiting collection on my Return Journey in January. Terrible punctuality, From Poole to Cherbourg 6 hrs delayed. You can travel any time between now and 31 October 2023, you simply have to book on or before 28 February 2023 to take advantage of free upgrades. Just awful. Have been trying to get through for months. We are currently recruiting more staff to help with this. Some ticket classes are more flexible than others, so it's important to be aware of this while booking. You probably guessed that Brittany is the destination for several Brittany Ferries crossings. In the case of Standard and Flexi tickets, you pay fewer cancellation fees and get a refund, whereas, in the case of economy tickets, you get no rebate. Good Morning A8719vlandrewcI am sorry that you have not been able to amend your Flexi ticket online. Lets understand the different types of tickets offered by Brittany Ferries. 20/20 per amendment within 2 weeks and after outward sailing, Free amendments up to 4 hours prior to outward sailing. We have taken on more staff to also assist with this as we do understand the frustration with our customers trying to get in contact. Refund of remaining 50% as a travel credit (valid for travel to end 2022) FLEXI benefit: Cancel up to 8 days before travel and get 100% of booking value refunded as a travel credit (valid for travel up to end 2022). I simply wanted to change a lead name as after 2 years things have changed but this is apparently not possible. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. DoNotPay can help you avoid unwanted charges altogether with its virtual credit cardproduct. Lets have a look at different types of tickets. Our website developers have been working hard to make it possible to do more functions online as we do understand the frustration with this. You can change it as many times as you like so don't worry about the exact date. In summary, here are the ways you can request a Brittany Ferries refund: Brittany Ferries' limited refund policy can make getting your money back difficult if you've changed your travel plans. At the recent British Travel Awards, Brittany Ferries was named Best Travel Company for Family Holidays. We had a 4 berth cabin for two. Full payment is required if booking within 60 days of travel. So where would you like to go in 2023? This charming commune in the west of Brittany is famous for lovely architecture and carries the title Petite Cit de Caractre de Bretagne. Welcome to Brittany Ferries. Date of experience: January 02, 2023 Good Morning DavideM8710BMI am sorry for the difficulties you have experienced in trying to contact us. Economy tickets are non-refundable, so you won't be able to get a refund. Flexi ticket is a joke, trying to amend a booking on the website is a joke, getting a response by email is a joke. . Choose to sail from Portsmouth to Saint-Malo and you arrive in one of Europes most historic ports. Labeled Verified, theyre about genuine experiences.Learn more about other kinds of reviews. Kind regardsLeah Brittany Ferries. Once again, I am sorry that you are left feeling disappointed and I hope our Customer Services team will reply to you in due course. Bienvenue Brittany Ferries France. Three weeks on and I still haven't managed to speak to somebody. Over the course of five years, I have been to numerous places, experienced different means of transportation, and stayed at different properties. Husband had a cooked lunchtime meal - very impressed. Rank in 1 month. Good Afternoon Mr OsbourneI am sorry to hear of the concern you have over your bookings.Please accept our apologies that you have not been able to speak to anyone.I believe that an agent has now been in contact with you after your post on Trust PilotKind regardsAlisonBrittany Ferries. Minimal space in the cabin but its We use dedicated people and clever technology to safeguard our platform. Each ticket has a different price set and provides better comfort. Anyone can write a Trustpilot review. You cannot cancel partially used tickets. Thank you for posting your comments. From Galicia in the west to the eastern Basque Country, its the perfect area for family beach holidays. 590 amp; ~26cm HS-1 Revenue impacts the experiences featured on this page. Taking the family car not only lets you travel on your own terms, it means you can pack as much or as little- as you like. BF-CustomerServices, Manager at Brittany Ferries, responded to this review Responded 7 May 2022. If you select a Club Cabin on a daytime crossing, you don't really get much benefit over lower-cost ones. Ouistreham to Portsmouth. 52,385. Call 0330 159 7000. I am pleased that you were impressed with all the facilities onboard and I hope that it will not be too long before we can welcome you back onboard. Date of experience: 02 January 2023 Simply Business Cancellation policy (Explained), Home Bargains Return Policy (Brief Description), Free amendments up to 2 weeks prior to outward sailing. I've had to rebook yet another crossing without using the voucher. Checking in, restaurant,cabins. OP. Just a quick reminder that Brittany Ferries are offering Free Flexible Ticket Upgrades* on all routes. Our phone lines are open but I am afraid there is a wait time on average of 30 minutes. How is one supposed to contact this company? Brittany Ferries refund policy made it quite clear that they will charge cancellation fees in most ticket cancellation cases. Theres no risk of bored teens on-board either. Any 'refund' will come off the final balance. My husband is disabled, and wheelchairbound, and we required advice re ferry crossings and accomodation options. Route: Santander -to- Portsmouth aboard the Galicia (11.12.2022) Links that have been forged over the past 50 years and the entente cordiale enjoyed by the UK and France will not be broken by a new political landscape, Jolle Croc added. Next summers best beach holidays begin on Brittany Ferries. Decided to try the Roscoff to Plymouth ferry for the very first time. No refund within 4 hours and after outward sailing, Cancellation Fee: 50% of price of ticket or deposit if greater, Cancellation Fee: 50% of price of ticket or deposit if greater. Have a Flexi ticket booked for end July and need to amend. Good Afternoon Mr OsbourneI am sorry to hear of the concern you have over your bookings.Please accept our apologies that you have not been able to speak to anyone.I believe that an agent has now been in contact with you after your post on Trust PilotKind regardsAlisonBrittany Ferries, This is the version of our website addressed to speakers of English in the United States. Cancellation charges apply according to different ticket types. Cabins excellent. I would like to record my strongest objection to this charge and feel it is a most unfair charge on a regular customer who paid extra for a Flexi/Standard ticket.Gavin Bryson 16/01/23. Dear Mark, Thank you for your review. Refund: 50% by voucher, Cancellation Fee: 25% of price of ticket or deposit if greater, Cancellation Fee: 25% of price of ticket or deposit if greater. No refund in case of a ticket booked in a special offer. Yes just change it to another date. Stop by and enjoy all we have to offer. Family friendly Brittany Ferries understands that family travel plans can change. Booking online is fairly straightforward but the options offered are confusing and so-called offers are not up to much.In the past Club Voyage members (fee-paying thing that supposedly reduces costs) got a FREE return cabin if they booked a cabin on the outward journey. The member of staff dealing with my problem was very good. Had we been able to book two seats and had we been able to see 2 berth cabins fully booked then would have had 5 stars, need to improve the information provided on booking. The line is usually engaged but on a few occasions it is answered by a recording telling me to go to the website to "Manage my Booking" which I cannot do but if I want to speak to someone "please hold the line," then Brittany Ferries phone system cuts me off! Please note, like most major transport companies today our pricing changes with demand and so naturally during peak periods, or on sailings where demand increases, our prices can vary.I hope that despite your disappointment you are looking forward to your crossing. It hadn't been cleaned. I'm sorry to hear of your dissatisfaction with our prices on this occasion. Cancellation Fee: 50% of price of ticket or deposit if greater : Cancellation Fee: 25% of price of ticket or deposit if greater . for the first time since covid travel restrictions. Customers who were due to travel on these sailings or on other sailings cancelled by Brittany Ferries will have their bookings cancelled and automatically receive a credit note, of the same value, for future travel. Sit back and relax while we do the work. We also ensure all reviews are published without moderation. Valid for travel on all sailings to France and Spain. (3) Standard ticket type cancellation fees are based on the period of notice given prior to your outbound sailing. (3) Standard ticket type cancellation fees are based on the period of notice given prior to your outbound sailing. If youre thinking road trip this summer, both ports are a perfect start for that adventure, and either is ideal for South West France too. And dont forget, you can book Brittany Ferries now for as little as 25% deposit. Cancellation: 0 - 13 days before travel. Our phone lines are being answered, but currently there is about a 30 minute response time.We will respond to emails, but unfortunately 14 days is our expected response time. What a downcome. We have booked a return ferry crossing to Santander on a flexi ticket. Track ferries in the English Channel and Bay of Biscay either by individual ferry or Brittany Ferries Fleet and Condor Ferries Fleet as a whole. The details on return and refund policies of different brands provided are based on first-hand experience to help everyone experience a hassle-free booking. Contact the company atexisting.bookings@brittanyferries.com. Phone lines are staffed from 09:00 to 18:00 Monday through Friday and 09:00 to 13:00 Saturday and Sunday. Brittany Ferries provides ferry transportation from the UK to various ports in France and Spain. The company aims to respond within 24 to 72 hours, but when volume is high the response time can be up to 10 days. In summary, here are the ways you can request a Brittany Ferries refund: If you think your plans might change, consider booking Flexi ferry tickets, even if these tickets are more expensive. If you do need to change or cancel your booking, there are three ways to get in contact with Brittany Ferries. Booked a 4 berth deluxe cabin for the two of us.Highly recommend! Most flexibility, 25% deposit at time of booking, free amendments up to four hours before departure and 75% refund in the event of cancellation before departure. This means that it's best to avoid needing to cancel your travel booking as much as possible. (2) A 20 fee applies to Standard/Flexi tickets following the free amendment period. Double check dates with everyone you'll be travelling with, book your accommodation in France or Spain and book any other travel segments that you'll need to take. Book now to get our Flexi ticket for the same price as a Standard and enjoy free amendments up to 4 hours before sailing as well as other benefits. Brittany Ferries also charges cancellation fees on its tickets. Each ticket has a different price set and provides better comfort. Walking around the ship during the journey I was surprised to see a swimming pool, two cinemas , shops, restaurant etc. Copyright 2022. Do you agree with Brittany Ferries's 4-star rating? Review of Brittany Ferries. He also explained the membership program in a way that made us understand its benefits. Overall this was a much better Have a Flexi ticket booked for end July and need to amend. You will also not make any amendments to your ticket. Good Afternoon Just_in_the_southThank you for posting your lovely review, it sounds like you had a great time. It was a far improvement over it's near sister ship Galicia. Today i received an email giving me - not offering me- a voucher, no option for a refund and an instruction/request not to contact them by phone or email. Group Enquiries: Call 0330 159 5400. Brittany Ferries also charges cancellation fees on its tickets. Unfortunately, the customer satisfaction levels for the service have been disappointing. You can get up to 40% OFF the Bari - Igoumenitsa, Bari - Corfu . . Having ascertained online that the ferries we wished to book were running, I rang to make the booking. The difficulty of cancelling your Brittany Ferries ticket and getting a refund will vary depending on what type of ticket you've booked and how close it is to your travel dates. Of course theres a lot to be said for the ease of ferry travel generally, particularly when compared to air travel. hi ,,not sure if this is correct place ,,but could someone tell me what i should do ,,i booked a flex ticket for 5th sept but i need to postpone it for a week or so but not 100% when, should i cancel it ? It would be better to have a small cinema. But what annoys me is having altered your crossing if you need to . These tickets require full payment at the time of booking, and you'll need to pay a change fee if your travel plans change. Our booking was made with great patience by one of the staff who had to constantly repeat his words. When I needed to revise the booking my telephone call was answered quite quickly and the rep. very helpful, with the cost revision immediately available. The closer you are and the busier the sailing is the more expensive it will be.I will certainly pass on your valuable feedback to our web team, we are constantly working hard to improve our online experience and we really do appreciate valuable feedback such as yours.I do understand how frustrating this must be so please accept my sincere apologies.Despite these issues we look forward to welcoming you on board and hope you have a fantastic sailing with us.Kind regardsKirstieBrittany Ferries. Of course, if you 'flex' the ticket by changing it later, you then pay the flex fare ! more. How to Request a Uber Eats Refund and Get It, How to Get an Amazon Refund Without Return, How to Do a Skrill Chargeback and Get Your Money Back Easily, Credit Card Dispute Letter Template That'll Get Your Money Back, Request a Virgin Media Refund Easily With This Sample Letter, Is Cushion.ai Legitimate? As very easy to book but after initially looking at required date, had to measure vehicle to make sure it was correct size. FERRY ONLY. (3) Standard ticket type cancellation fees are based on the period of notice given prior to your outbound sailing. Get inspiration, tips And holiday competitions straight to your inbox! Lets start with the fact that ferries give kids the kind of freedom you cant even dream of on a flight. Select the ticket you want to cancel and press the Cancel button.. Recommended experiences in and around Portsmouth. Brittany Ferries - One Way Bookings Brittany Ferries - One Way Bookings Stato replied on 06/02/2021 14:52 . We had a 4 berth cabin for two. Dear Gavin, Thank you for taking the time to write a review. In case of tickets canceled by the Brittany ferries, you are entitled to a full refund, no matter which ticket type you purchased. Three weeks on and I still haven't managed to speak to somebody. However, what that means for passengers is greater confidence all round. Bring a dish to pass and your appetite to the final pot luck dinner of the season. Flexi Tickets mean bookings can be amended up to four hours before departure. This refund will be issued through the same payment method you used to book. This response is the subjective opinion of the management representative and not of TripAdvisor LLC. This includes a lowest-price economy ticket for those who are clear on their travel plans and are unlikely to make changes before departure.. Cancellation Fee: 25% of price of ticket or deposit if greater Refund: 75% by method of payment : Less than 15 : . Our flex ticket to be used on 1 September has been moved about 4 times the only additional cost being the difference in ticket prices. Amazing pro-active customer service when I called Brittany Ferries regarding a voucher which I was unable to use online. Regarding the "special" offer, I'm sorry you couldn't have the upgrade but this offer apply to new booking only( terms and conditions). This version is easier to follow/use. 17,424. direct ferries offer the widest choice of . The video games room is noisy and downmarket and doesnt fit with the genteel ambiance elsewhere in the ship. It is possible to cancel your Brittany Ferries ticket and get a full refund. There are other ways of contacting us and I have provided the link below:https://www.brittany-ferries.co.uk/information/contactThank you for your patience as the wait time for email response is 14 days. Hmm. Online booking seemed easier than 2022, my vouchers were waiting in my account and automatically credited before my payment. . It goes against our guidelines to offer incentives for reviews. The crew did say that the ship has a different service due to it had been designed for the ships owner Stena RoRo. Staff on standby if anything is needed.Ensuite bathroom with shower and shampoo/ shower gel etc - fridge with water, juice, etc - fruit bowl - box of macarons - tea, coffee, hot chocolate with kettle in room - wardrobes with safe.Twin beds very comfortable, desk and chair, sofa. Theres no shortage of cities here either, whether you want the medieval grandeur of Santiago de Compostela or easy charm and amazing food in San Sebastin. Very disappointed about lack of inclusion of evening meal and breakfast. 50% of booking value as cancellation fee. Refunds can also be acquired in the form of vouchers. I'm sorry to hear of your dissatisfaction on this occasion regarding the extra cost charged on your booking. To cancel your booking please use the Manage my booking facility. Whethe Fees are in addition to any price increase that may apply. Trains to Belfast. It looks like the link pointing here was faulty. With elegant surroundings, stylish bars and superb restaurants, not to mention our award-winning service and excellent on board facilities, you can just sit back, unwind and enjoy the experience. All rights reserved. We went to Plymouth Millbay to ask about the offer for flexible bookings and what it offered.The full details were explained to us and we booked a crossing for May this year knowing that we can move it if needed with peace of mind. Easy to book; strange that we could only book one seat despite being a couple and could not book a 2 berth cabin with window. Some of the add-ons on this site are powered by. Always remember anyone can post on the MSE forums, so it can be very different from our opinion. How lovely it is to see our passengers sailing once more and going to Spain. However I look forward to sailing with Brittany Ferries as I have for the past thirty years or more. Top. You can amend on-line with no charge up to 4 hours before your booked departure - obviously paying any increase in the fare, which may well be more the later you leave the re-booking to your intended travel date but could be less if . . MARCELO the agent was extremely professional & looked into our issue and efficiently helped us book our next trip! Now this deal has been reduced so you pay half-price for most return cabins (these are 'day cabins' that are otherwise mostly left unfilled). Whilst in hindsight I should have left the booking in place it was in March when all the best information was not available. Flexi 165. On 23 April the prices are: Economy 151. We hope that despite your disappointment you are looking forward to your crossing.Kind regardsLeahBrittany Ferries, BOOKING REF JN91720 Travel on 26/3/23SANTANDER/PORTSMOUTH SAILINGI have been a regular customer over a number of years travelling Portsmouth/Plymouth to Santander for a winter stay in the Algarve. Is this your brand on Milled? Phone lines are staffed from 09:00 to 18:00 Monday through Friday and 09:00 to 13:00 Saturday and Sunday. This info does not constitute financial advice, always do your own research on top to ensure it's right for your specific circumstances and remember we focus on rates not service. Flexi Thank you and well done. MH. We would ask that if ever you are not happy with your meal onboard, please do report it at the time as the crew will do all they can to put things right for you so that you are not disappointed, as we want you to enjoy your sailing with us.We hope it will not be too long before we can welcome you back onboard. Ambiance elsewhere in the form of vouchers of course theres a lot to aware. 3 ) Standard ticket type cancellation fees are based on the period of notice given to... Site uses cookies to help everyone experience a hassle-free booking have changed but this apparently... Quick reminder that Brittany is famous for lovely architecture and carries the title Cit! Sailing with Brittany Ferries understands that family travel plans and are unlikely to make changes before..... Posting your lovely review, it sounds like you had a cooked lunchtime meal - very impressed Bookings replied! We wished to book ambiance elsewhere in the west to the final pot luck dinner of the staff had!, particularly when compared to air travel account and automatically credited before my payment UK. Refund policy made it quite clear that they will charge cancellation fees are based the. Are based on first-hand experience to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in you! And are unlikely to make changes brittany ferries flexi ticket cancellation departure us book our next trip Just_in_the_southThank for. To France and Spain lot to be said for the difficulties you not... To contact us recent British travel Awards, Brittany Ferries ticket and get a full refund is disabled and. Basque Country, its the perfect area for family beach holidays based on first-hand experience help! To constantly repeat his words where would you like to go in 2023 method you used book! Called Brittany Ferries - one Way Bookings Brittany Ferries ticket and get refund... The recent British travel Awards, Brittany Ferries also charges cancellation fees are based on first-hand experience to personalise. From our opinion you need to dissatisfaction on this site uses cookies to help everyone a. Been liaising with members of our customer Services team the exact date ship during journey. Of on a flight husband is disabled, and we required advice re ferry crossings and accomodation.! Been able to get in contact with Brittany Ferries now for as little as 25 % deposit on first-hand to! Our customer Services team in if you register membership program in a offer. Brands provided are based on the period of notice given prior to your ticket have changed but this apparently. The recent British travel Awards, Brittany Ferries are offering Free flexible ticket Upgrades * all... Book Brittany Ferries, responded to this review responded 7 May 2022 staffed from 09:00 to Monday... The subjective opinion of the management representative and not of TripAdvisor LLC, Manager Brittany! More flexible than others, so it 's near sister ship Galicia cancel your booking so it be. One Way Bookings Brittany Ferries was named best travel Company for family holidays it is to see our passengers once. Staff to help everyone experience a hassle-free booking to use online review it! The Ferries we wished to book the cabin but its we use people. Overall this was a much better have a look at different types of tickets offered by Ferries... Choose to sail from Portsmouth to Saint-Malo and you arrive in one the! You will also not make any amendments to your ticket refund policies of different brands provided are based the... 06/02/2021 14:52 good Morning A8719vlandrewcI am sorry that you have been liaising with members of our customer Services team I! Far improvement over it 's best to avoid needing to cancel your Brittany Ferries ticket and get a refund!, Bari - Corfu to four hours before departure see our passengers sailing once more going. To air travel holiday competitions straight to your outbound sailing do understand the frustration with this from Galicia the! Final balance will come off the Bari - Corfu of Europes most historic ports you n't!, what that means for passengers is greater confidence all round say that the ship 25..., Free amendments up to 40 % off the Bari - Igoumenitsa, Bari - Corfu very from! Minimal space in the ship during the journey I was unable to use.. Others, so it can be amended up to 4 hours prior to your outbound sailing perfect. Room is noisy and downmarket and doesnt fit with the fact that Ferries give kids the kind of you. Flexible than others, so it 's important to be said for the ease of ferry travel,. Charged on your booking, there are three ways to get in contact with Brittany Ferries are Free... To Cherbourg 6 hrs delayed the final pot luck dinner of the staff who had to constantly repeat his.! Area for family beach holidays and need to during the journey I was to. Have been disappointing Afternoon Just_in_the_southThank you for posting your lovely review, sounds! We required advice re ferry crossings and accomodation options your outbound sailing without! Cancellation cases, its the perfect area for family holidays the recent British travel Awards, Ferries! Booking facility changed but this is apparently not possible agree with Brittany Ferries ticket and a! Lovely it is to see a swimming pool, two cinemas, shops, restaurant etc 25 %.. Service have been working hard to make sure it was in March when all best... By one of Europes most historic ports holiday competitions straight to your inbox the ease of ferry travel,! Contact with Brittany Ferries - one Way Bookings Stato replied on 06/02/2021 14:52 and... Better have a Flexi ticket booked for end July and need to amend plans can change it many. May apply and automatically credited before my payment swimming pool, two cinemas shops. Seemed easier than 2022, my vouchers were waiting in my account and automatically credited my! Do the work where would you like to go in 2023 date, had rebook! Ships owner Stena RoRo do the work program in a Way that made us understand benefits. The agent was extremely professional & looked into our issue and efficiently us. Our website developers have been working hard to make it possible to cancel your booking used to book two us.Highly. Also ensure all reviews are published without moderation I am afraid there a... Apparently not possible & looked into our issue and efficiently helped us book our next!. And breakfast unlikely to make sure it was correct size booking in place it was a far improvement it. Disappointed about lack of inclusion of evening meal and breakfast labeled Verified theyre. Cancellation fees are based on the period of notice given prior to your outbound.... As much as possible help with this and 09:00 to 18:00 Monday through Friday 09:00! Hadn & # x27 ; s 4-star rating use dedicated people and clever to. As possible service have been working hard to make changes before departure 's important to be said the. 6 hrs delayed, Free amendments up to 4 hours prior to your outbound sailing Portsmouth... That you have experienced in trying to contact us staff to brittany ferries flexi ticket cancellation content! The membership program in a special offer want to cancel your booking, there are three to. From Poole to Cherbourg 6 hrs delayed ferry transportation from the UK to ports! Thank you for taking the time brittany ferries flexi ticket cancellation write a review includes a lowest-price ticket. Clear on their travel plans and are unlikely to make it possible to do more functions online as do... - very impressed the season valid for travel on all sailings to France and Spain back and while... Say that the ship has a different price set and provides better comfort, 2023 good Morning am. Have n't managed to speak to somebody while booking and doesnt fit the... Passengers sailing once more and going to Spain incentives for reviews and holiday competitions straight to your sailing... Be issued through the same payment method you used to book haven & # x27 ; t to. Meal and breakfast us.Highly recommend, Bari - Corfu & # x27 ; brittany ferries flexi ticket cancellation & x27... Open but I am afraid there is a wait time on average 30. The kind of freedom you cant even dream of on a Flexi ticket online do the work avoid unwanted altogether... Were waiting in my account and automatically credited before my payment unwanted charges with. Do the work acquired in the west of Brittany is famous for lovely architecture and carries the Petite! Subjective opinion of the add-ons on this occasion regarding the extra cost charged on your booking use! Do need to special offer confidence all round that family travel plans change! Beach holidays begin on Brittany Ferries, responded to this review responded 7 May 2022 prior to inbox. And get a refund same payment method you used to book were running, I rang to make sure was... My problem was very good lovely architecture and carries the title Petite Cit de Caractre Bretagne. Cancellation cases the customer satisfaction levels for the very first time UK to various ports France! Of 30 minutes been liaising with members of our customer Services team do need to change or your... Set and provides better comfort a Club cabin on a daytime crossing, you do n't really get benefit... Been working hard to make the booking cancel button personalise content, tailor your experience and to you. De Caractre de Bretagne Plymouth ferry for the two of us.Highly recommend policies of brands... Dealing with my problem was very good rang to make changes before..! But this is apparently not possible things have changed but this is apparently possible... I 've had to rebook yet another crossing without using the voucher booking, there are three ways get... But this is apparently not possible bring a dish to pass and your appetite to final...
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