A forum community dedicated to BMW owners and enthusiasts. However, bank 1 has two sensors, of which sensor 1 is located near the engine before the catalytic converter, an upstream sensor called pre-CAT, and sensor 2 is located after the catalytic converter called post CAT, a downstream sensor. On the other side of the nernst cell, oxygen from the air outside the exhaust travels down the O2 sensor and makes contact. Switch on the oximeter and connect the applied probe to the oximeter. Available for Windows, Mac, and Linux, the next evolution of our diagnostic scope software is now available. 2nd wire: White heater (-) Disclaimer A forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts. If the voltage of the downstream oxygen sensor drops and fluctuates like the voltage of the upstream oxygen sensor, it is a sure sign that the oxygen levels are too high, and the PCM will display the P0420 code. Download manuals, brochures, posters, and training materials. Closing out this thread for the troubleshooting masses. it is unlikely both o2 sensor went at the same time. So why is the light still on? All combined to achieve 29 m.p.g. If you unplug the lambda sensor it will need to default to the fuel maps that its already calculated as being good. It does not store any personal data. All three O2 sensors are intechangeable. This switching can be observed on an oscilloscope or by using the low range voltage on a multimeter. If they have the same reading, then it indicates that the catalytic converter is damaged. There is no different part number for bank1 and bank2. Minimize the help page. This is due to the fact that bank 2 is representative of an engines #2 cylinder, while sensor 2 serves as a downstream designation. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. . If you need assistance having this checked or repaired, a qualified pro from YourMechanic can come to your location to inspect the system and replace any O2 sensors that are faulty. no difference in them at all, fronts tell the computer how to control vehicle air and fuel and the rears are for cooling the cats when they get too hot. Lambda sensors can have a heater element which heats the sensor to its optimum operating temperature of 600 C. Use live data to check for signal if the sensor wiring is difficult to access. functioning wise) Also, where can I buy a cheaper O2 sensor? Automotive diagnostic scopes and equipment. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. You'll ruin sensors and have nothing to show for it. *At Pico we are always looking to improve our products. Our support forum where 16,000+ users (including Pico staff) discuss all things PicoScope Automotive. We use cookies to optimize our website and our service. The support I have received from Pico over the years has been superb. AU $129.99 + AU $45.00 postage . Poor fuel economy: a faulty oxygen sensor will upset the air to fuel mixture resulting in increased fuel usage. Vehicle manufacturers identify bank1 vs. bank2 and front / rear vs. pre / post positions somewhat differently, so care should be taken to make sure youve identified the right (problem) sensor. Members are advised to consult qualified specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters connected with their cars at all times. spyderchat.com is not in any way affiliated with Toyota Motor Corporation. Pre Cat and Post Cat O2 Sensors For Suzuki Swift Sport RS416 1.6L M13A M16A . 232/234 .595,.598 +2 comp cam with ported and polished stock heads with .650 lift dual springs and a bowl grind. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. That's where my misconfusion came from. Are Bank 1 and Bank 2 O2 sensors the same? It is always going to be located after the catalytic converter. She is a proud owner of a BMW M3 and has been an active member of the BMW Motorcycle Owners of America (BMW MOA) for many years. The catalytic converter maintains the stoichiometric air-fuel ratio of 14.7:1. The pre-cat sensor is fitted into the exhaust pipe before the catalytic converter, and cars using the new EOBD2 also have a post-cat lambda sensor. Is upstream pre or post cat? Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. The "pre-cat sensor" regulates fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the catalytic converter. read the wiki, all common air leask are there, hi y have 2 codes po155 heated oxygen sensor bank2 sensor 1 (ho2s21) sensor heater circuit and po135 heated oxygen sensor bank 1 sensor 1 (ho2s11) sensor heater some vary can tell me the locations on this sensor and part #s or were i can buy it cheap thanks. For this reason, there are a few tell-tale signs to look out for: To identify the source of any O2 sensor faults, consider the following steps: Before you replace the sensor, you need to diagnose the problem. The difference between the two is about $1,000.. The service engine soon lamp was on on my 03 325I(68k miles), took it to the dealer, they diagnosed and told me that one of the oxygen sensor is faulty and gave an estimate of $600 to replace one sensor. Directors of the Board of Porsche Club GB, Club Office Staff, Register Secretaries and Regional Organisers are often requested by Club members to provide information on matters connected with their cars and other matters referred to in the Club Rules. Hi my VIN is 98 Z4U 64 1458, so would this need the upgrade as I seem to be suffering from this issue? Our collection of training videos, articles, guides and information on training courses. A sensing element sits inside the sensor, encased in a steel housing. 3rd wire: Black - signal $64.34 . For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. This allows for best signal acquisition. I think the two pre-cats and the driver's side post-cat are the same on the 98-02 fbodies. Other tooling or equipment may be required to determine if it is the actual sensor and not the wiring that is causing the problem. You must use the correct ones, whether oem with the correct length cable and plug, or the correct universal equivalent, that will require you to measure and splice your old plug onto it. New product: The PicoScope EV Diagnostic Kit, PicoAcademy: Pressure testing with PicoScope, Data logging for Automotive and heavy equipment, Product launch: PicoBNC+ Optical Sensor Kit, Lambda sensor - pre- & post- catalytic converter. Each vehicle may be different and require unique test To protect against the sensor becoming welded into its threading, Delphi sensors come with anti-seize compounds either pre-applied or included in the box. 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THe post cat is a different P/N and has a different wiring length but the fact that you ran CEL-less for a year means you indeed had the two remaining sensors wired correctly. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. I tried a couple of them and got codes before I even started the car. This allowed air in, diluting the stream and telling the ECU there was more oxygen in the stream than there should have been. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada, spyderchat.com is an independent Toyota enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope Inc. The o2 (oxygen) sensor. Its job is to monitor the oxygen content exiting the catalytic converter in order to determine if it is operating efficiently. It can be caused by a dead/missing main cat, a failed post-cat O2 sensor or and this happened to me with the PPE setup, a crack in the outlet pipe of the PE cat in front of the O2 sensor. Such information, advice and assistance provided by such persons is given in good faith and is based on the personal experience and knowledge of the individual concerned. The purpose of this test is to investigate the operation of both pre and post catalytic convertor oxygen sensors. TT (Mk1 . The reference voltage is altered according to the engine's air fuel ratio, with a lean mixture returning as little as 0.4 volt and a rich mixture producing in the region of 4.0 volts. are the pre cat and post cat 02 sensors the same? The technical storage or access is required to create user profiles to send advertising, or to track the user on a website or across several websites for similar marketing purposes. You may have widebands tbh so no upstream and down stream would be different. Common sources of contamination include an excessively rich fuel mixture condition or oil blow-by in an older engine and engine coolant being burnt in the combustion chamber as a result of an engine gasket leak. Most cars have at least two oxygen sensors located throughout the exhaust system; at least one in front of the catalytic converter and one or more downstream from the catalytic converter. Since the oxygen sensor is in the exhaust stream, it can become contaminated. Both Titania and Zirconia sensors, when working correctly, switch approximately once per second (1 Hz) and will both only start to switch once the normal operating temperature has been achieved. Phase I=140whp Phase II=230whp Phase III=Cant tell the clutch pedal from the brake! By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. While , And despite their simplicity, a cold air intake actually provides a decent horsepower boost for a small investment. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. In most cases, a vehicle with an inefficient catalytic converter will continue to run just fine. Way too much..an OEM O2 sensor is $120-150 from autohausaz.com. Upstream is before the Cat and downstream is after the cat. $71.24 . 2001 camaro z28 ss vert with factory slp upgrades, Hooker long tubes, 3"y-pipe to a 4" muffler, ,airlid,s.s.r.a. There IS a difference, When I did my header install we lost a rear 02 but we had an extra front for some reason, so i bought a new front, and plugged the rear with the extra 02long story short, checkers system is F'd up and gave me a REAR 02 for my frontso the next week when i bought a rear 02 for my actual rear it was the same Part numberi drove around with that one in the front for about a month till it started surging bad and throwing codesthrew that extra front 02 in the front and waalano issues no codes, been months nowso there IS a difference. Library of examples on how to perform tests when using PicoScope. Wow that is a crazy amount to pay for oxygen sensors to be changed at the dealer! Check the power supply to the heater - often these wires are the same colour. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. On an oscilloscope, the resultant waveform should look as the illustration above. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". On Bank 2 means it is at the engine side with cylinders 2, 4, 6, 8, etc. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. 4th wire: Grey - earth. Sensor 2 is the downstream oxygen sensor. I was very impressed as to the speed and ease of ordering. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. Carolina has been a BMW enthusiast since she first got her driver's license. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. Inspect the electrical connector for damage or dirt. The code P0420 can be caused by the catalyst, O2 sensors before and after the catalyst. check out the. The ECU wont be able to adjust fuel trims properly. JavaScript is disabled. You will see that, The pre catalytic converter sensor signal. Use manufacturer data to identify the function of the pre and post catalytic convertor oxygen sensor circuits. Upstream Sensor is in the Exhaust Manifold Pre-Cat. Correct, yes that's the one. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Where as before 2003, they were like yours using all 4 regular. Proper installation is essential to ensure that your lights do not interfere with other drivers. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Picture Information. please help all stuff is breaking this wknd !! $89.05 . These Remove passenger side front Use the factory wire retainers i I know there wasnt a difference on my 02 SS. Required fields are marked *. Not having ordered on the internet before i didnt struggle at all. Information can be obtained from the operator or the white pages. The sensors have a varying number of electrical connections, up to a maximum of four wires. Bringing the BMW community together. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. Lambda sensors have an internal heater, so check the resistance of the heater it will usually be quite low. Training resources and demonstrations on PicoScope and the Automotive Diagnostics Kit. Click to enlarge. Hover to zoom. Thanks KrisL, I missed that part, mine is 3/03 so I need to buy the 5 wired, wow there's big price difference between 4 wired and 5 wired sensors. Real-life case studies show how the professionals use PicoScope to diagnose vehicle faults. Check your VIN: I would be obliged if you could provide full bulletin, e-mail. I think the passenger side one is a different part number because of longer wires. When you change the cat you nearly always have to put new sensors in as they will have rusted in. - If a post-cat sensor was modified so it could be installed as a pre-cat sensor, would it work? The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. hi guys i got old 02 sensor out a Little tight getting new one in. do i have to lower exhaust pipe ? Too much fuel produces hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide. with unbelievable performance for the money. 0 Being lean, 0.5 being ideal and 1.0V being rich. Then use a spanner or dedicated O2 socket wrench - to unscrew the sensor from its seating. The opinions expressed on this site are not necessarily those of the Club, who shall have no liability in respect of them or the accuracy of the content. This signal is then sent to the Electronic Control Module (ECM) and the mixture is adjusted accordingly. Too little fuel produces nitrogen-oxide pollutants. I think the passenger side one is a different part number because of longer wires. Unless you are AWM then the whole thing is different the bosch catalog is wrong about the part # for the universal rear one. Could I buy universal one, if not why? Find a route near you or discover somewhere new with our member submitted drives. The pre-cat sensor regulates fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the catalytic converter. The most commonly used sensor has a Zirconia element, producing a voltage when there is a difference in oxygen content between the two electrodes. Read any fault codes using a diagnostic tool. Other than the connector, is there a difference? Downstream Rights means the rights that are acquired from the Downstream Operator by a User or the Downstream System counterparty user, in order to receive the Regasified LNG at a Regasified LNG Delivery Point. How do I know if its my upstream or downstream O2 sensor? A cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the engine, so that . How do you fix P0420 catalyst system efficiency Below Threshold Bank 1? It is also exposed to extremely high temperatures, and like any component can wear over time. Our P2096 fault code problem has now been resolved. The tools used in this guided test may have been superseded and the products above are our latest versions used to diagnose the fault documented in this case study. However I'll defer to your knowledge with working at Bosch. The pre- and post-cat O2 sensors look to be identical, the only visible differences being the wire lengths, and connectors. AU $309.99 + AU $45.00 postage . Narrowband = typical lambda/oxygen sensor. Copyright 2022 Machine Matrix L.L.C. tuned with EFI Live. Porsche Club Great Britain gives no warranties, guarantees or assurances and makes no representations or recommendations regarding any goods or services advertised on this site. Heres something you probably dont know: after clearing the cars computer you will need to drive for about 50 to 100 miles. In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region. When responding to advertisements please ensure that you satisfy yourself of any applicable call charges on numbers not prefixed by usual "landline" STD Codes. sorry supunna that lest post was for your info not WTS, WTS I have a garage queen back roads only the freeway is way to boaring try not to whine so mutch i posted the info was for supunna not you get over it. 2012 BMW 328i (F30) 2.0L N20 - PRE / POST CAT O2 OXYGEN LAMBDA PROBE SENSOR SET . Yes, if the connector plugs are the same (on the 2001 Camaro they are) By nathans1987 in forum Gen III V8 Specific, By charlieNchains in forum Vortec V6/V8 Specific, By Riccas in forum Duramax 06 LLY / 06+ LBZ & LMM. . Free shipping . ,t.c.bypass,descreened m.a.f. You must use the correct ones, whether oem with the correct length cable and plug, or the correct "universal" equivalent, that will require you to measure and splice your old plug onto it. Anyone else wonder if the OP was able to do any modifications (lights, drop, wheels, interior trim, grilles) but can't figure out how to swap out the 02 sensors? HPE Megadeath cam, UDP, SLP LT Headers, Corsa Catback, Textralia clutch kit, ACPT CF driveshaft, Billet shifter, SAP Spoiler, The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, http://sincitygoats.com/gallery/v/aquariussuperman/, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. 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Posts made and opinions expressed are those of the individual forum members These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. The difference is the wire length. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. New . Check engine light: whilst the check engine light can come on for many reasons, it is normally down to an emission related issue. The downstream oxygen sensor(s) are located in the exhaust pipe, behind the catalytic converter. Check if this part fits your vehicle. Expecially since Pre-Cat is difficult to get at. It is what tells your cars ECU when the AFR goes rich, stoic, or lean. Downstream Sensor is in the Exhaust Pipe Post-Cat.