If you dont ask about Pauls sins, I wont tell about them. Therefore, what Saul was taught was not based off of Gods truth. Furthermore, youre also essentially calling Paul a liar. Paul did a much better job of marketing himself, and he wrote about himself hundreds of times. He calls himself "of the people of Israel.". The translation of his relics is observed on August 2 . That is the basic idea of the heavy-duty seminary language we were being trained in. I think they are both wrong, because of Ephesians 2:15 and Matthew 5:17-20, among other Scripture passages Can you help to bring harmony in the Bride of Christ? He had nowhere to sleep, and had to go stay in a hotel for several days. Thanks also for your series on New Perspectives. symphony kitchen spares; pink lily holiday dresses; hitch installation near me. However the church now says the law has been done away with and they have replace Israel. Paul says that he was taught by Gamaliel. Anyway, Ill talk with Clinton and see if he has an idea for a short catchy slogan- maybe boiled down to four words or so. Besides Jesus, all the characters in the Bible had frailties- like Jonah and Paul. Needless to say, many still revere Philomena and Christopher as saints. The second passage refers to Paul. Without any clear time reference, continuing on the theme of the Apostles, Matthew does record These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions [Matthew 10:5] Matthew never said that the Apostles were sent out immediately after being appointed. Similar to my discussion with Sam above, the evidence for Pauls athletic metaphors is late, maybe 20 years after conversion. What were Pauls specific sins as a Christian? So Law, Prophets, scripture is what it is divided into. This is a question of fact about the content of the text in the 66 Books of our Bible. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. b) Greg Laurie, the Boss of a wide-ranging personal cult empire that generally goes by the name of Harvest. Greg lives in Newport Beach, commutes by helicopter, and exploits the very large church he founded in Riverside from a distance, while he does his own thing in Orange County and travels around wherever he feels like, building a personal business empire with himself as the center, not Jesus. It would be like me claiming that I was educated in worship by Marco Barrientos at Christ for the Nations in Dallas Texas he is the worship leader famous in Spanish Language Charismatic Christian circles for his song based on Isaiah 11:9 Ser Llena la Tierra https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zGS_V5mEOG4, Is it true? I need to refine that. Gamaliel and his beliefs seem to have a fairly large impact on Paul and his theology. Law. WE are not even in this game! Gamaliel taught between A.D. 22-55, giving us an approximate early date for Paul's education. This has literally been the Orthodox position for almost 2000 years. On analogy to Supreme Court Justices dissenting in limited and specific cases (anomolies) as a dissenting minority against a majority with whom the dissent would normally agree? How long did it last? Mantra: ..and Muhammad is his prophet., .3) Paul the Pharisee, the self-appointed Apostle to the Gentiles, whose 13 letters comprise one third of what, today, we call the New Testament. (The first, original New Testament was composed by the second century heretic Marcion, and he coined the term New Testament. His new book contained nothing except 10 of Pauls letters and an abbreviated Gospel of Luke. Good point. One of them responded to me QUOTE: In short you believe Paul is the Anti Christ.. Not a new theory Mostly just misunderstanding Pauls writings..He never preached to abolish The Torah thats a misunderstanding https://unashamedofjesus.org/2016/05/31/greatest-commandment/#comment-5642, The other one responded to me QUOTE: When you referred to Jesus words about the greatest commandment, you neglected to mention the context. This is something Peter practiced and had a struggle with regarding gentiles because hes from the school of Shammi. ), STEP 1) Paul said; I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man. [1 Timothy 1:13] (Response- Those were Sauls sins, before Jesus called him. To be extremely polite, I could say that Paul says some things which are difficult to understand. To be more direct, I could say Paul talks like an arrogant megalomaniac with a messiah complex, proclaiming; I am not under the law but yet making up his own laws as he goes along, that everyone else has to obey. But Pauls teachings drive one up the wall. St. Paul is simply an elect vessel, as an Apostle! As a Roman citizen, Paul possessed a coveted status Listen to Gamaliel. .1) There is more New Testament text written specifically about the Church in Corinth than any other church, by far. Shaul and Yehusa were both Jews who practiced Judaism, worshiped in synagogues, at the temple and were part of Jewish society and culture. First off reading the first paragraph, his human teachers and influences matter almost as much as guidance by the Holy Spirit did. Paul was accustomed to learning from his elders as he developed as a Pharisee (Galatians 1:14). Just open the Gospels, especially Mathew, which has you in mind, and listen to the voice of Yeshua. Oh well. We know that as a young man Paul studied under the tutelage of Rabbi Gamaliel in Tarsus, who provided him with an expert knowledge of the Hebrew Scriptures ( Acts 22:3 ). Although Gamaliel was a wise teacher, he was still a Pharisee, so his teaching was not in line with God. This isnt the fullest description of him, but its full enough. The overwhelming majority of the epistles is actually fighting against the teachings of Shammai in his time period. hmmm. And what kind of a stone is the most solid, permanent, and unchangeable? Dr. Ron Mosely and the archaeology team has gone through great lengths to disprove your theory by presenting actual archaeological evidence. Yet he verbatim stated who he was and no one in the court said otherwise but well take your word for it. May I ask which verses of Scripture you are basing this on? Several people objected that it does not really matter who Pauls human teachers were, after his conversion experience he was taught by the Holy Spirit. Perhaps in a synagogue, either Hebrew or Hellenistic? To Paul, Christianity was dangerous, and to his Jewish thinking, very wrong. That is an issue and is creating confusion regarding the Brit Chadashah (Renewed Testament). And we can but make some comparisons in ourselves. Paul would say his success came from the power of the Gospel and the Holy Spirit. Believe. Yes I believe that Paul was influenced by his teacher Gamaliel and his experience of being a Pharisee, but I do not think these were the only factors shaping how and what Paul taught and wrote. It is a Rembrandt. I am not sure we can know, but Aramaic seems likely, although Scripture would be studied in Hebrew. I think in certain ways, Paul can be described as a Christian Pharisee who believes in Jesus because there are times when Paul goes very much by the books and follows certain rules. If you say we dont know enough, or it isnt clear, you are not familiar with the text of the New Testament. ), If you cant prove me wrong, you dont have to say Im right, you dont have to agree, but dont say that Im wrong. If you are sure Im wrong but you dont have time to prove it, that means you are either lazy, willfully ignorant, or are breaking the 9th of the Ten Commandments, You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.. It seems that Pauls upbringing and learning under Gamaliel would have to play some role in the way that he thought, taught, and formed his theology. Maybe Gamaliel was strict with Saul,so Saul was being rebellious. I keep wondering how far N.T. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. If Christianity is the church as it is practiced in 2018 then you are correct, that is not present in the book of Acts. Who was Paul's mentor in his study of Judaism? These mostly have something to do with marriage and divorce. Phillip you have been an inspiration to me here is a new poem. Gamaliel became a leading authority in the Sanhedrin, the highest Jewish court in Jerusalem. A persons presuppositions about what Christianity is (or is not) is the real problem here. He states that if the apostolic movement is from God then it cannot be stopped, if it is not form God then it cannot succeed. Paul has a track record in Scripture of boasting, exaggerating, and stretching the truth to promote himself and make himself appear more important than he really was. Polhill observes that several rulings of Gamaliel appear in the Mishnah, mostly having to do with marriage and divorce. Upgrade to remove ads. Acts 22:3. Paul claims in Philippians 3 to be a Hebrew of the Hebrews, some people take that as a saying we spoke Hebrew at home, not Greek or Aramaic. The NIV translation inserts the heading Matthias Chosen to Replace Judas for the passage Luke wrote in Acts 1:12-26]. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these TWO commandments. [Matthew 22:36-40, Deuteronomy 6:5, Leviticus 19:18], But in contrast with Jesus, Paul the Pharisee didnt know the greatest, most important, first commandment according to Jesus. God told them to go one way, and they disobeyed God and did the opposite- but God still worked through them eventually, after they repented. We are painters, and we paint. Paul cannot stand alone in opposition to Jesus and everyone else. And most of all, he wouldnt of been able to defend the Gospel in such a way as if he did not have the correct teaching. Polhil states that perhaps around the age of fourteen to sixteen Paul went to Jerusalem to study under Gamaliel (Acts 22:3), (30). Tarsus of Cilicia. I also imagine Yoda being Gamaliel and Luke Skywalker being Paul. Yes, Christians are the new Pharisees and because of Paul will never figure it out. In fact, it almost sounds as if he is name-dropping in order to impress people!. How can we account for this violent reaction in a man trained by Gamaliel? And Christians do it with pride as there is no Trinity and the Bible doesnt say there is OR that God is more than 1. The people who Paul persecuted were Diaspora Jews who accepted Jesus as Messiah and claimed that God raised Jesus from the dead. R. N. No one in the pages of the Bible ever said or wrote that all Scripture, or the Bible, is all truly Gods words. Well considering I am infact Jewish I dont need your advice on what I should read. Indirectly, Gamaliel had a profound effect on the early church. Tha A in TanAch. I would agree that Saul takes a different approach than Gamaliel to the upstart church at the beginning of Acts, but I will insist that he returns to the teachings of his youth after his conversion (no doubt in no small part due to the Holy Spirit). This is a good point, although I am not sure that the tradition is totally reliable. I pray that you will be blessed with the knowledge of Jesus Christ and Gods love through the cross for you. I tried to look for the beginning (Acts 1), because a friend Im discipling has asked to go through Acts with me, and this looks like good supplement material. I would need to find an online edition of the Clementine Literature and hope there is a search capacity. Even if Judas was physically present, as we all realize now, he was not a true follower of Jesus. He uses these references quite often throughout many of his books in the NT. He was an expert in the law. The first thing was that they might be with Him personally, together, for His entire earthly ministry, from the time of John the Baptist until Jesus rose to heaven. Or see the series of posts on Core Beliefs of Second Temple Judaism starting here: https://readingacts.com/2017/03/30/core-beliefs-of-second-temple-judaism-shema/. This is not the sort of education most people would even want, so it is not really a college degree. This comes from inconsciously believing Pauls mantra, the Evangelical Mantra, that All Scripure is God-breathed, and falsely assuming Paul was referring to every word in the 66 Books of the Bible. 4:2 Gamaliel forbade husbands from divorcing their wives without their knowledge. I can use football analogies even if I have never actually been a football player. He just doesnt suddenly become submission to government and punishment, or in his words a prisoner of Jesus Christ. He is, at least, in some small way returning to what he could have been taught by Gamaliel. The testimony of Jesus is the voice of Jesus, (The Red Letters,) recorded by the 11 faithful witnesses, the True Apostles that Jesus personally appointed and trained for over 3 years. We can now understand as they did then, what God wills, what Christ said, and His ambassadors taught. Im horrified that youre taking Jewish writings and making crazy stories out of them. Minhags- customs attached to moses and the oral law to make them valid that were infact against Torah and corrupt. If the apostle Paul was a student of Gamaliel then Paul mustve had a wife since one of the requirements to be taught by Gamaliel was that you were married. They didnt celebrate easter, christmas, saunday. The rabbi Gamaliel was a Pharisee in the tradition of the great Hillel. Gamaliel the Elder, or Rabban Gamaliel I, was a leading authority in the Sanhedrin in the early first century CE. He comes back to nonviolence and tolerance in his ministry (how he handles the riots and the scourgings). There is absolutely no Christianity in the book of Acts. It was no less difficult then, yet it was Helpful. This was where the institution derived its name, gymnos being the Greek word for naked. For Jews, nakedness was religiously offensive (11). By Paul being Jewish and involved in the gymnasium, he was going against the norm. Maybe there is someone I could bounce this off, to get some ideas. imitate me.. No research was taken into account of what the yeshivas of HIllel and Shammi taught and believed. TWO. The leaders of the various house churches, Apollos by name, perhaps Chloes household is another church. Therefore, in times when there is no clarity, we should end there and not come up with our own assumptions. Paul wrote 29 chapters to this church that he founded and then left after 18 months, and also we have Lukes biographical account starting in Acts 18:1. Or the series on Jewish Christianity starting here: https://readingacts.com/2018/01/18/introducing-jewish-christian-literature/. But lets agree on a fact about what is written in the New Testament text. Dang, I wrote that and didnt respond to your last point. You can hover over the pic and it will say that (or at least it did for me in Firefox). Gamaliel taught between A.D. 22-55, giving us an approximate early date for Paul's education. It seems that people want to limit the intervention of God in the lives of people he intends to use. When did Paul study under Gamaliel? When Hillel died, his son Simeon assumed his position, but Simeon died shortly after he took office. We cannot be completely certain exactly which Scriptures Paul meant in All Scripture, and what Paul meant by God-breathed. Why cant we be certain? Not the Baptists, Lutherans etc. The only think I have examined from him (Yeshua: A Guide to the Real Jesus and the Original Church) is occasionally accurate, but often wildly wrong. He uses this in Philippians 3:12-14 to describe the Christian walk. Like Brad Young, he is deeply influenced by David Flusser but unlike Flusser and Young, he is less in touch with mainstream Jewish scholarship. He may have had Greek rhetoric and oration skills, but not at the top level (or at least he says he is not much of a speaker). If I were a missionary to England, I would certainly want to learn all I could about football, tea, and Doctor Who. It bothered Peter so much that G-d sent him a vision regarding gentiles coming into the faith. Same question; Specifically, what were Pauls specific sins as a Christian based on specific verses of the Bible? As for your denial of a range of opinions in the first century, I suggest a something on the Dead Sea Scrolls, representing a more conservative view of practice than the Pharisees or Sadducees. Christians threatened his view and interpretation of the law until his conversion in Acts 9. I guess I had better plan ahead, and save a slot for the last Pope, Francis. This also convinces me that even though it seems he split from Gamaliel, early on, that did not change him into something completely opposite. Paul claims to have been educated by Gamaliel, one of the premier teachers of the Law in the first century. That is a good question, I am not sure if anyone has ever asked me that before! I think that we should use Pauls training from Gamaliel as a background to understanding his theology because most of his theology is based off of his human teacher and was added on by the Holy Spirit. I think there is some sort of progression, however, in Pauls theology. Here is how Jesus answered that question: #1 One of the teachers of the law asked him [Jesus], Of all the commandments, which is the most important?, The most important one, answered Jesus, is this: Hear, of Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. I cannot imagine Paul competing in the gymnasium, even if he was Hellenized. Paul was in Jerusalem from the age of 3 (under Gamaliel), so to assume he already knew how to WRITE Greek would be fallacious.. What does Josephus say about Gamaliel? 2. This idea can even be applied to his post-conversion work seeing how he sought to integrate the Gentiles into the Church when it was still a controversial issue. A Nazarite vow entail a MANTADORY sacrifice to the temple. This is what happens when you dont study near eastern culture and context before reading scripture. Nowhere. IMHO, Paul was not an eyewitness to the crucifixion. This is getting boring. I agree that the teaching of Gamaliel did influence his life and was the foundation of his ministry because he is a Talmudim from that school. 1973 Inside the mind of a Jesus Person. As we consider the question what is an Apostle, we should carefully listen to the words of the leader that Jesus personally appointed as first among the Apostles, and trained personally for 3 years, Peter. Well considering I am infact Jewish I dont need your advice on what I should read.. So the biggest problem with the church in Corinth was Paul himself, and his abusive absentee leadership style. 1. Granted Shammaite pharisees love their Torah to that extent as well, but it is not a distinctly Shammaite practice. But I am a Reformed Anglican. Paul is the model pastor for many modern Pauls like; a) Bob Coy, who still owns all the assets and controls all the money at his cult known as Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale, in spite of his recent resignation as Senior Pastor there due to adultery with multiple woman and other major sins that he still has never specifically admitted to personally. Moreover, Paul preached that gentiles ingrafted into the olive tree were part of Israel is a teaching DIRECTLY from Hillel. Study sets, textbooks, questions. Meaning people who believed in the Moshiach as Yeshua. If his father was a very zealous man as well, then there is the possibility that that affected the way that Paul thought even before he entered into the teaching of Gamaliel. Probably his training with Gamaliel would have been concluded by the time he was twenty and would have given Paul a very good understanding of Old Testament Scripture. How many times did Jesus speak to Paul? There is more to Sauls violence than preaching Jesus as Messiah. therefore I urge you to imitate me, and I have become all things to all men. Paul thinks hes Boss, and doesnt need to listen to your instructions that I gave him.. People trained by Paul to carry on the work after he left. . Written in stone. What could be more permanent than that? As to pauls seemingly at odds relationship with his teacher Gamaliel, it is no odd thing for a student to differ from a teacher, especially if the student is quite a zealous one. unless some else takes credit for writing these words. Gamaliel was a Pharisee, and a prestigious teacher of the law in the council. Gamaliel is reported to have offered somewhat lenient advice concerning the early preaching of the apostles in Acts 5:34-39. 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